Secretary Berset, Locarno was a key moment in history. What lessons did it teach?
The lesson of Locarno is generosity and courage. The courage to sit down at the table with former enemies, to recognize them as interlocutors and no longer as adversaries. Think of the First World War: only seven years after that disaster, the same countries came together to build a European vision. It was an act of great courage and generosity. People who once hated each other managed to find empathy and work together for the continent's common interest. This innovative and generous spirit was perhaps too strong for the times, but it remains a model. Even if the political context has not guaranteed its longevity, the spirit of Locarno continues to be an example. Locarno is not just a chapter in Swiss history: it is an example of creativity and dialogue that has influenced the entire continent. In the fields of art and thought, too, this region was then among the most vibrant in Europe. It is a legacy of which we can be proud.
Law You've spoken a lot about democracy and the pressures it faces in many countries. Does this also apply to Switzerland, or is our country immune?
It concerns everyone. It's the consolidation of opinions that arise from groups, collectives. Over the past ten years, we've seen the enormous role of social networks, disinformation, bots, and artificial intelligence manipulating all of this. Every country is affected, including Switzerland. Of course, thanks to strong decentralization and direct democracy, we're somewhat more immune than others, but the phenomenon exists here too. We're experiencing a crisis of democracy, of the rule of law, a crisis that causes damage but also opens up opportunities for progress.
So democracy is in a difficult but not hopeless phase?
Exactly. It's like in football: there are moments of attack, when you advance and score, and moments of defense, when you have to resist. The difference is that in society these phases don't last minutes but decades. Today we may be in a defensive phase, but opportunities can arise from here. The current situation, for example, has led to greater European political unity and a greater awareness of the need to look at ourselves as a continent. These are positive signs. The decline in rights and the risks to democracy are negative. If we don't act, this trend is dangerous. We must transform it into something constructive.
What tools are needed to defend democracy?
We must agree on common rules to combat disinformation, protect the work of journalists, and ensure diversity of media and opinions. Without pluralism, there is no democracy. European Council It can play a concrete role: establishing shared rules for the moderation of social networks, for what is acceptable in public debate, and for protecting the quality of information. Today, in countries like Moldova, Romania, and Poland, each state faces waves of interference during elections alone. Common tools are needed. The Council of Europe is discussing a convention that would bring together these shared tools to protect democracy and the rule of law throughout Europe.
Switzerland has a complex relationship with Europe, especially the European Union. Has your perspective changed since you became Secretary General of the Council of Europe?
«I'd say it enriched it. Switzerland's role in Europe is impressive. Just think of the 20th century: the Locarno Conference, the League of Nations in Geneva, the UN in Geneva, Churchill's speech on the future of Europe given in Zurich in 1949. The European idea was also born in Switzerland, with Denis de Rougemont, Jean Monnet, with archives in Lausanne. We are at the heart of Europe, even if we often forget it.
Many people confuse the Council of Europe with the European Union. What's the difference?
«It's true, there's often confusion. The Council of Europe is a larger organization, with 46 member countries. It was born from the spirit of Locarno and the desire to bring together victors and vanquished after the war as partners for dialogue. Even the symbol of Europe—the blue flag with the stars—was born here, and was later adopted by the European Union.
What is Switzerland's relationship with the Council of Europe?
Switzerland has been a member of the Council of Europe for over 60 years, fully committed to its institutions. It is a project based on values—democracy, the rule of law, human rights—that are profoundly Swiss. There is nothing more Swiss than the Council of Europe.
And with the European Union?
The European Union is a political project, but that too is essential to the continent's stability. And if there are tensions, that's normal. The important thing is not to be naive: our most reliable partners are those close by. The recent tariff issue with the United States also demonstrates this. The geography doesn't change: Switzerland is at the heart of Europe and will remain so.
Migration is one of Europe's problems, not just in Switzerland. There has recently been criticism of the European Court of Human Rights. What is your position?
«Nine countries, including Belgium, Italy, and Denmark, have asked for a review of some of the Court's decisions. My initial reaction was caution: pressuring or politicizing a judiciary is not a good idea.
But is it open to debate?
«Absolutely. The Court didn't fall from the sky: it was created by the member states, together with the Council of Europe and the European Convention on Human Rights, precisely to improve and converge. My role is to defend its independence and political processes. If there needs to be a political discussion on migration, it must be done, but in a structured and respectful way.
What difficulties do you foresee?
«The complexity lies in the fact that migration cases vary from country to country. A discussion with Denmark only partially concerns the Italian or Dutch cases. It's easy to start talking about migration and end up discussing something else."
How do you plan to address this complexity?
«I have proposed a highly structured discussion within the Council of Europe. Belgium, Italy, Denmark, and the other 43 member states must sit down together, define what works and what needs to be changed, and initiate a productive debate. I will merely be a facilitator, the civil servant of the member states.
To conclude: You're the first Swiss to head the Council of Europe. What do you mean when you say that "Europe needs a few more Swiss"?
(Laughs) "It's a way of saying that we can bring something useful: a sense of dialogue, moderation, the ability to build consensus even among different opinions. In Switzerland it seems normal to us, but elsewhere it's surprising. And then direct democracy: that ongoing dialogue between people and institutions that, despite its conflicts, builds trust and political creativity. Ultimately, this is what Europe needs today too."
